Sorry guys we are going to have to cancel the Reliabilty Ride this year.
In return for giving us insurance for the event (thats the 3rd party kind which covers us if someone unconnected with the event makes a claim) British Cycling now recommend a risk assessment, inspection of the course within 48 hrs of the event & notification to the relevent police forces. This would then mean having warning & direction signs, marhsal's etc. None of which I'm prepared to organise for what is really just a big clubrun.
Reliability Ride - cancelled
Moderator: Moderators
Its a shame after having run a reliability ride year in year out but this is a sign of the times, just looked on the BC website at races in our region this year and there's either not many races going ahead or they just havent got round to listing them all yet.
The police if truth be known would rather not have any mass start events on the public roads, added to this the blame culture with which we live in means that the insurance companies stipulate that risk assessments are carried out and all hazards clearly marked and marshalls positioned at strategic points to alert the riders and other road users of each others presence.
Running the event as a glorified clubrun would be irresponsible of the club IMO as you cant trust 60/70 cyclists from all different clubs to conduct themselves accordingly, a group of 20 cyclists at the business end of the ride hurtling down the road at 20-25mph does on occassions see individuals believing they are Sylvian Chavanel and attacking the group on the wrong side of the road. Im not saying this happens every year but such acts could result in a nasty "Road Traffic Collision" as the Police call it being all politically correct.
It is a shame and Im sure Paul hasnt taken this decision lightly.
The police if truth be known would rather not have any mass start events on the public roads, added to this the blame culture with which we live in means that the insurance companies stipulate that risk assessments are carried out and all hazards clearly marked and marshalls positioned at strategic points to alert the riders and other road users of each others presence.
Running the event as a glorified clubrun would be irresponsible of the club IMO as you cant trust 60/70 cyclists from all different clubs to conduct themselves accordingly, a group of 20 cyclists at the business end of the ride hurtling down the road at 20-25mph does on occassions see individuals believing they are Sylvian Chavanel and attacking the group on the wrong side of the road. Im not saying this happens every year but such acts could result in a nasty "Road Traffic Collision" as the Police call it being all politically correct.
It is a shame and Im sure Paul hasnt taken this decision lightly.
Firstly theres no way I'm advertising this in advance as a club run and then still getting 50 riders turn up - not the work of a responsible club. I did consider it but the only way would be to do it in individual groups but on different weeks - one for the ride leaders to consider?
I mailed BCs everyday cycling Events Officer having checked the website beforehand. She stated the requirements were only recommendations but I wouldn't want to take the chance should an incident occur. In many ways its the most high risk event we organise - its impossible to control riders on the road, the circuit is hard and technical, riders of unknown ability, mainly quiet roads plus some very busy stretches etc etc. Plus the weather - at what point do we decide if it should be cancelled due to bad weather?
Two years ago it was 25 quid to insure through BC and that was it. No RA, no signing on sheets, last year when their Everyday Cycling wing took over it went up to £60 per 100 riders which is what it is this year. I asked the same questions last year but I must have had a reassuring response as chose to run it anyway? The risk assessment form is the same one for open road races - but theres not many road races over one 60 mile lap! Sadly I feel this kind of event has been lumped in with challenge rides and which require a different level of organisation.
To cancel wasn't a decision I took lightly having organised and ridden the event in all weathers every year since 1994.
I mailed BCs everyday cycling Events Officer having checked the website beforehand. She stated the requirements were only recommendations but I wouldn't want to take the chance should an incident occur. In many ways its the most high risk event we organise - its impossible to control riders on the road, the circuit is hard and technical, riders of unknown ability, mainly quiet roads plus some very busy stretches etc etc. Plus the weather - at what point do we decide if it should be cancelled due to bad weather?
Two years ago it was 25 quid to insure through BC and that was it. No RA, no signing on sheets, last year when their Everyday Cycling wing took over it went up to £60 per 100 riders which is what it is this year. I asked the same questions last year but I must have had a reassuring response as chose to run it anyway? The risk assessment form is the same one for open road races - but theres not many road races over one 60 mile lap! Sadly I feel this kind of event has been lumped in with challenge rides and which require a different level of organisation.
To cancel wasn't a decision I took lightly having organised and ridden the event in all weathers every year since 1994.
It is a great shame that the regulations make it harder to put on these rides and I support Paul's decision in deciding not to put the ride on this year.
Following on from what has been said I would be happy to do the route as a club run but that is very different to running the reliability as a club run.
For a few years we rode the TanHill route as club run, it didn't make it a substitute for the audax but kept the route and ride for club members who enjoyed it.
I would list the route on the club website as a club run with a cafe stop in Malton. I would ask club members to let me know if they intended to come along because it might be more popular than a normal club ride and we would therefore look at splitting in to groups at the start. Normally we have fewer than 8 riders on a club run. On those 2 or 3 weeks when more than 10 riders turned up I had to change our planned route.
Helen
Following on from what has been said I would be happy to do the route as a club run but that is very different to running the reliability as a club run.
For a few years we rode the TanHill route as club run, it didn't make it a substitute for the audax but kept the route and ride for club members who enjoyed it.
I would list the route on the club website as a club run with a cafe stop in Malton. I would ask club members to let me know if they intended to come along because it might be more popular than a normal club ride and we would therefore look at splitting in to groups at the start. Normally we have fewer than 8 riders on a club run. On those 2 or 3 weeks when more than 10 riders turned up I had to change our planned route.
Helen
What foxes me is that reliability rides are a bit of a tradition all over the country. Are these all for the chop too?
Could we get round the whole thing by having grouped starts of perhaps 10 (random) riders, maybe 10 mins apart. This would get over the big peloton danger, and will give everyone a good work-out till more natural groupings evolve.
Appraising ride and route conditions would need to be done anyway for any ride by whoever is ride leader. I'm sure many people in Kev's gang would be interested is a 100-km challenging ride along the famed Crayke Helmsley Malton Birdsall route, and there's no rule banning a cafe stop before right at the end.
Could we get round the whole thing by having grouped starts of perhaps 10 (random) riders, maybe 10 mins apart. This would get over the big peloton danger, and will give everyone a good work-out till more natural groupings evolve.
Appraising ride and route conditions would need to be done anyway for any ride by whoever is ride leader. I'm sure many people in Kev's gang would be interested is a 100-km challenging ride along the famed Crayke Helmsley Malton Birdsall route, and there's no rule banning a cafe stop before right at the end.
Just a thought, does anyone know how the CTC York district group who organise several Audax rides each year go on as these can involve large numbers setting off together, I know on the entry forms you have to be a member of Audax UK or the CTC or pay a levy on the day for personel third party insurance reasons.
This is just a query for anyone who may know, its by no way a criticism about the cancellation of the event which has my full backing to Paul.
This is just a query for anyone who may know, its by no way a criticism about the cancellation of the event which has my full backing to Paul.
Without muddying the water, what about the CTC Ron Kitching ride? This is a massed start event, but without marshalling and "danger warnings". As far as I'm aware (which generally means that "I'm guessing"! 
) it's not an AUK event either?
So, there seem to be plenty of different rules depending on who's running the event, who's providing the insurance and who you ask?
Probably too late for now, but what about seeing if City of York Council's cycling officer could provide some assistance in the future - they've got "Cycling City" status, and "partnering" the city's premier club might be something they'd be interested in?
Jason.
) it's not an AUK event either?So, there seem to be plenty of different rules depending on who's running the event, who's providing the insurance and who you ask?
Probably too late for now, but what about seeing if City of York Council's cycling officer could provide some assistance in the future - they've got "Cycling City" status, and "partnering" the city's premier club might be something they'd be interested in?
Jason.
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BroomWagon
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:27 pm
- Location: Elvington
Maybe a silly question, but do we need to bother with insurance? If you ride, you do so at your own risk. Could the club really be sued if a third party is injured and do we have any assets worth sueing us for anyway?
Alternatively would the CTC give us insurance for this event?
Failing that, we could have a Sunday club run anyway - doing the reliability route with a stop in the usual cafe (Deans?) at the end. Go off as per Willy's suggestion in groups of 10 which to me seems a good idea whether it's an "official" reliability ride or not.
Alternatively would the CTC give us insurance for this event?
Failing that, we could have a Sunday club run anyway - doing the reliability route with a stop in the usual cafe (Deans?) at the end. Go off as per Willy's suggestion in groups of 10 which to me seems a good idea whether it's an "official" reliability ride or not.
Andy and Paul have listed some of the reasons why this could not be put on with out insurance. The club cannot advertise a ride and not follow advise.
Haven't taken part in a couple of mass start events I can see why they are being introduced. The problem with the reliability ride is that it falls between 2 categories. Lots of riders may start together, but after that riders form their own groups and use a map to get round responsible for their own safety.
These days there is a move away from that and at some point any sort of organised ride may well have to have signs etc.
It cannot be put it on un-officially as a club run. We can do the route as a club run in the same way we do rides like the 'Yorkshire Alps'. If a group of riders want to do it non-stop at a hard pace then they can. As I have said, if a larger number than normal turns up on a Sunday, we may adapt route or split into groups.
Helen
Haven't taken part in a couple of mass start events I can see why they are being introduced. The problem with the reliability ride is that it falls between 2 categories. Lots of riders may start together, but after that riders form their own groups and use a map to get round responsible for their own safety.
These days there is a move away from that and at some point any sort of organised ride may well have to have signs etc.
It cannot be put it on un-officially as a club run. We can do the route as a club run in the same way we do rides like the 'Yorkshire Alps'. If a group of riders want to do it non-stop at a hard pace then they can. As I have said, if a larger number than normal turns up on a Sunday, we may adapt route or split into groups.
Helen
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BroomWagon
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:27 pm
- Location: Elvington
Fair point Dr Dave - we're not the only ones with a Reliability - what does everyone else do? Seems there's strong support for the Reliability it would be such a shame to abandon it. If there's anything I can do, I'd be happy to. I think leaving this till the AGM the Thursday before is too late.
I could call the CTC re insurance though I'm not a CTC member or the organisors of the other ride but I'm not a Clifton committee member, don't know if that matters.
I could call the CTC re insurance though I'm not a CTC member or the organisors of the other ride but I'm not a Clifton committee member, don't know if that matters.